navitron
 
Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Anyone wishing to register as a new member on the forum is strongly recommended to use a "proper" email address. Following continuous spam/hack attempts on the forum, "disposable" email addresses like Gmail, Yahoo and Hotmail tend to be viewed with suspicion, and the application rejected if there is any doubt whatsoever
 
Recent Articles: Navitron Partners With Solax to Help Create A More Sustainable Future | Navitron Calls for Increased Carbon Footprint Reduction In Light of Earth Overshoot Day | A plea from The David School - Issue 18
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: hutchinson tower convert to hydraulic  (Read 651 times)
jhinshel
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 53


« on: November 16, 2020, 08:58:57 AM »

Hello,
I am planning on converting a Hutchinson 6kw proven tower to hydraulic lifting by building a hydraulically activated pedestal hinge. I have designed the components in CAD and tested via FEA but I would appreciate someone having a look at what I have done. please let me know if you can help.

Also, I am keen to source suitable hydraulic rams for this. Any advice would be useful.

Regards,
Justin
Logged

off grid 4 years: 2.5kw pv,sunny island 5048, 2 mx 60s, proven 2.5 48v, home made charge controller, 1500Ah fork lift batteries, 60 evacuated tube solar heating, vigas 40 kw biomas boiler, 3000l thermal store
offthegridandy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1031



« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2020, 09:29:22 AM »

Hi, I have a set of Hutchinson design drawings for the 10/12/15 mtr tower as provided for an Evance 5Kw turbine.

As I'm sure you have worked out the difference between the std tower and the hydraulic is in the position of the hinge.

On the std tower the hinge point is at ground level.  On the hydraulic tower there is an extra "spool" section some 1230mm long, same dia as the tower. The spool section is bolted to the base plate and the hinge is on the top of the spool section.

In the ground, the root section has an additional mounting plate fixed to the root and centered 840mm from the center of the tower base root.  This plate is for attaching the hydraulic rams. The whole root section is concreted into the ground using C35 grade concrete and a rebar cage. Concrete base to be 3100X3100X 1000 minimum (ie 9+ cu mtr ) , final base size to be dictated by ground conditions.

The hydraulic rams connect to the ground plate and the upper end attaches to the tower at a point about 1000mm above the hinge point. There are 2 rams in the design; product code "Interfluid HFR6500900" you need both.  In addition you will need a hydraulic pump and control valve spools to control the lift.

If you have the relevant experience and pump already the project may get off the ground but I would be very hesitant.  I have a Hutchinson tower (12mtr) and considered doing what you are proposing, I also have the pump and valves.  Given the extra work and cost for something one may only need a once every couple of years I desided against it. A good Tirfor winch with a couple of sheeve blocks to reduce the effort gets my 12 mtr tower up or down in less than half an hour  and the winch can be used for other jobs as well.

Regards the top tower section these are all unique to the different turbines that can be fitted to the std Hutchinsons tower.  According to my drawings the top of the final 6 mtr section terminates with a plate having 10 studs 12mm dia, PCD of the studs is 550mm overall dia of the top plate is 220mm the hole in the center being 70mm. I made my tower top from a round plate 10mm steel to fit onto the studs, then a tube section 500mm long by 90mm dia, reducing down to final section 450mm long by 70mm dia.  All welded then galvanised.  This is supporting my 4.2mtr dia Hugh Piggot design turbine.

I am afraid I no longer have access to an A3 copier but If needs be I could copy the drawings in sections as small scale PDF or summat if it would help.

For your info the 12 mtr tower weighs as follow. Upper section 330 kg lower section 445kg spool section 200kg  so all up hydraulic tower weight Just shy of a Tonne; not something to play with unless you are really sure and don't stand undereath it. Add 200 Kg of WT to the top and if it starts to fall you've got 12mtr X 1.2 tonnes coming at you.

Hutchinson are still about I believe hutchinsonsengineering.co.uk based in Widnes WA88PT  tel 0151 422 9990

Hope the above helps.

Andy
Logged

8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
offthegridandy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1031



« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2020, 09:49:31 AM »

if this is any help here is my adventure with the WT and within pages 22 to 26 you will find some pictures. https://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,24270.315.html

Andy
Logged

8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
jhinshel
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 53


« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2020, 12:21:29 PM »

Andy,
Thanks for your detailed response.

I have contacted Hutchinson and they were not able to supply the component from stock and were not interested in fabricating another component for me.

I would be interested to have copies of the engineering drawings that you have and also details of the design and fabrication of the top piece that you made for the tower.

I have sketches (not drawings) for a 15m  hutchinson tower but they do not match the tower that I have. The tower I have seems to have larger diameter sections than the drawings. I am keen to have drawings for this tower as it would make it easier to build the componets that I require.

I appreciate the challenge of building a hydraulic tower. I have used turfors on my existing setup (18m tower). This requires two large turfors and lots of people and quite a lot of nerve. I am keen for a much simpler solution which is where the hydrualic tower comes in. I think that the existing tower will be strong enough to erect via a hydraulic pedestal rather than the gin pole method. I have used FEA simulation to check this but I have a little more work to do in order to properly verify this. The hydraulic pedestal will have two rams which will be beefier than the rams you referred to but I have not identified a source for these yet. I have identified the loading on these rams.

Regards,
Justin

Logged

off grid 4 years: 2.5kw pv,sunny island 5048, 2 mx 60s, proven 2.5 48v, home made charge controller, 1500Ah fork lift batteries, 60 evacuated tube solar heating, vigas 40 kw biomas boiler, 3000l thermal store
offthegridandy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1031



« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2020, 01:52:12 PM »

Hi Justin, thanks for filling in a few of the blanks.  I was concerned to encourage someone down a potentially hazardous path if they don't understand the risks involved.

I wish to keep the A3 scale (paper) drawings that I have for my own records.  I will try to copy them using a scanner.  If I copy the drawings "full size" A4 section by section I can email them  to you as a series of pages.  You can then print them out and sellotape them up.  I used to own an A0 plotter and could do all copies I needed but no more I'm afraid.

It may take me a day or 2 to get the scanning done when SWMBO is available to help; it's her office that I will be using. I can email them to you using the PM here I guess.

Andy
« Last Edit: November 17, 2020, 01:56:28 PM by offthegridandy » Logged

8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
ceisra
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 104



« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2020, 05:40:31 PM »

I am not sure of your final design but could you use something like a 10 or 20 hydraulic body repair kit for the rams.
There also is a local hydraulic firm near me that supplies and repairs rams on everything from farm equipment to cranes on wagons.
I once had issues with a trolley jack that they sorted in 5 mins
Logged

16 X 240W Panasonic panels with a 3.6 ABB ( PowerOne ) inverter
http://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?id=40128&sid=36661
offthegridandy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1031



« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2020, 11:12:21 AM »

PDF drawings emailed direct to you Justin.
Logged

8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
floydy
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 14


« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2020, 11:55:17 AM »

I have to say as someone who services machines on both hydraulic and tirfor type towers, it's much easier to do the tirfor types on your own. The weight of brackets, rams, powerpack etc and difficulty of attaching the brackets and getting the rams in to place is definitely a 2 man job, or 1 man + machine. The hydraulics look great at a first glance, to watch the tower effortlessly rise up, but I much prefer the tirfor type when on my own. I find the bolts easier too at ground level.
Have you considered getting a big winch to go on a tractor/4x4 instead if the tirfor operation is too much?  I use a 3.2ton tirfor and a decent length scaff bar.

Andy
Logged
jhinshel
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 53


« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2020, 02:46:42 AM »

The tower is 20m tall which takes two 3.2 ton turfors - both with scaffold bars on the handles. This is OK for the most part but is hard work and does require lots of people. I would be keen to consider a hydraulic winch on a tractor - can you suggest a useful type. would i have to look out for a suitable used item on ebay to find a suitable one at a decent price?

If i were to go for the hydraulic tower, I do appreciate that the tower has to be that much more robust. I am planning on using two rams rather than one which may make the issue of installing them less of a problem but getting the rams in place on the hydraulic tower will probalby require two people.

 
Logged

off grid 4 years: 2.5kw pv,sunny island 5048, 2 mx 60s, proven 2.5 48v, home made charge controller, 1500Ah fork lift batteries, 60 evacuated tube solar heating, vigas 40 kw biomas boiler, 3000l thermal store
floydy
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 14


« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2020, 10:07:10 PM »

There is such a thing as a hydraulic tirfor, which would work with your existing wire rope, I've not used one personally, but there is a 3.2t at 900 with a powerpack and rope on ebay. I'd think this would be a good setup with the addition of a pulley to give 2:1 if you've needed two to get enough pull previously? Probably a lot simpler / easier than converting the tower you have. How do you configure your existing rig to use 2 tirfurs? 15m is the biggest tower I've done of Tirfor type, just on a single 3.2t.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!