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Author Topic: Battery connection to wind turbine & PV  (Read 1196 times)
djs63
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« on: December 28, 2020, 10:56:18 AM »

Hope the holiday has been OK. Keep safe.
As a non electrician (I used to measure mV and femto Amps! Which does not count) I want to ask advice about connecting a battery system to an existing generation system.

We have grid connection for a 6 kWp wind turbine and a 1.8 kWp PV system both with SMA inverters and I am looking at adding battery storage to protect our supply in the event of grid failure and eventually charge the EV (e-Niro).

Tesla Powerwall emailed to say that you can’t connect a wind turbine to their system. Other suppliers concentrate on PV in the example systems. Does anyone know of a commercially available set up which will allow connection to existing wind and PV generation please?

If my wishes come true, the other complication will be wiring it all together (expert job) and including a switch to allow house essentials to run during loss of grid power.

As luck would have it, the two inverters are 20 metres apart, one in the loft (of a bungalow) and one in a garage at the other end of the house. Thus monitoring, all by itself, will be awkward.

Here goes: I presume that connections will be on the AC side though we will, I am sure, add more PV at some stage.

Thank you for getting this far along my rambling road, David
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6 Kw Proven wind turbine, 15 Navitron evacuated solar hot water tube array and 1.8 Kw PV, grid connected (SMA inverters) and GSHP supplying radiators and UFH. Wood burning stove (Esse 300) and oil fired Rayburn. Rainwater harvesting 4500 litre tank underground and 1500 litres above.  Kia e-Niro
biff
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« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2020, 11:48:22 AM »

Perhaps there is some form of ImmerSun in DC
 that could perform that simple operation.
 I am sure there are SMA operatives here who would have a good idea. Seasons Greetings  djs63  reindeer
     Biff
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billi
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« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2020, 12:21:16 PM »

 hi ,

it might be worth while to study the Victron  information too   and  as  far as i remember one can ask questions tooo  https://www.victronenergy.com/live/system_integration:hub4_grid_parallel

My wisdom is now outdated , i assume ( without a tear) , but AC- coupling  , ie,   attach  AC Grid tie inverters to off Grid inverters is pretty simple , it gets more complex if  a FIT  payment is involved    , my understanding of a basic AC coupling idea was to  avoid the generating side has to be smaller than the offgrid Inverter/charger s capacity  so my outdated conclusion would be , that you would need quite a strong off grid inverter for the combined  max input of 7.8 kW , but this was me having no grid connection , your case is different having one , so the grid can be your drainage for excess too , beside hot water

Technically and operative wise i was pretty amazed how AC-coupling  works smooth ( with some reservations  of being a DC fan )

Billi 

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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
kdmnx
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« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2020, 12:54:14 PM »

There are battery systems that work independently of your wt/pv. They sense the power flowing in/out of your grid connection and charge/discharge a battery to keep the flow to/from the grid at zero as far as is possible.

LuxPower make such a device.

Power backup in the event of an outage is a whole other kettle of fish. Firstly to cover your whole house isn’t really economically feasible. How many kW are your oven, dishwasher, washing machine, and all the other high-power devices altogether? How many kWh of batteries would you need to run all that for howeverlong?

Many inverter/chargers (eg the abovementioned Lux) have the facility for a “UPS” circuit. This can power: lights, fridge/freezer, Internet router, phone/laptop chargers, TV, and a few other low-power essential devices, in the event of an outage but not much else. The expense here is wiring in a 2nd “fuse box” for the “ups” circuit, wiring your lights to that, wiring a special “fridge/freezer” circuit, and wiring a circuit for a string of sockets around your house for the low-power / essential devices. Basically you can take this as far as you want to.

Re. Charging the EV: some EV chargers (eg the Zappi) can charge from your wind/solar PV and avoid using grid power.
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12x JA Solar 340Wp panels (total 4080Wp)
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Fintray
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« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2020, 01:56:42 PM »

I have a Tesla Powerwall and it is AC coupled so I can't see how it would make any difference that the AC is coming from a wind turbine rather than a PV, surely it just sees the excess being exported and charges the battery. They also have the Powerwall with backup facility if the mains goes down.
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10.24kWp PV SolarEdge system
Tesla Powerwall 2
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Morso 5kW WBS
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nowty
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« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2020, 02:40:46 PM »

If the Wind turbine is AC coupled then obviously it will work, at least one company out there will do it, https://www.moleenergy.com/faq/i-have-a-wind-turbine-can-mole-energy-install-my-battery/

Tesla might think that most are DC coupled onto batteries and Telsa don't allow the Powerwall to work with an existing battery system. Or they might think that the wind turbine inverter will be an uncertificated one and don't want any complications.

So I suspect if you ask Tesla, they say no because its a standard response, but if you ask an actual installer and they understand all your generation equipment is AC coupled, they may say yes.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 02:51:12 PM by nowty » Logged

12 kW of PV installed and 67 MWh's generated.
Useable home battery storage of 50 kWh's.
Hot water storage of 15 kWh's.
Storage heaters of 15 kWh's.
EV BMW i3 (another 30 kWh's of storage).
6kW Ground source heatpump.
320,000 litres of water harvested from underground river.
Fintray
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« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2020, 03:27:50 PM »

Have a read of the Tesla support site https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/support/energy/powerwall/learn/combining-systems

As it says "Powerwall & Other Renewable Energy Sources
If installed outside the backup circuits, Powerwall can also charge from other renewable energy sources like wind, hydro and co-generation.
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3.87kWp PV
10.24kWp PV SolarEdge system
Tesla Powerwall 2
100 x 47mm Navitron tubes (still being installed!)
MK2 PV router DHW diverter
Morso 5kW WBS
Nissan Leaf
billi
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« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2020, 08:17:15 PM »

well , no need to concentrate on Tesla here , as they are not up to the  requirements  of dealing with that charging input
   and even otherwise i would stay away
« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 08:26:42 PM by billi » Logged

1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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