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Author Topic: Topping up FLAs  (Read 4479 times)
stephend
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« on: August 10, 2009, 09:55:45 AM »

Been chatting to a manufacturer who makes both PzS traction (forklift) bats and OPzS bats.  He said that the main differences between them is the amount of electrolyte (more in the OPzS) and that the PzS are obviously mechanically designed to be moved about.  Everything else, including efficiencies, chemistry, electrical characteristic is similar.
The other interesting tidbit was that because of the volume of traction batteries they make, they are considerably cheaper than the stationary bats.
Soooo, I'm interested to find out how often do those of you with FLA forklift batteries have to top them up?
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Justme
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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2009, 11:34:49 AM »

On 6 x 2v 1550ah cells I have used about 10L in a year (that does include some hard charging when I first got them & also the initial top up as they arrived slightly low all in about the first 5L). Each cell weighs about 95kg.

I guess it will come down to how hard you charge them & how often you EQ/force absorb them.


Justme
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Navitron solar thermal system
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1200watts solar 120vdc
FX80 Solar controller
Victron 12v 3000w 120a
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6 x 2v cells 1550amp/h 5C
24 x 2v cells 700amp/h 5C
Total bank 4350 amp/h 5C
billi
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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2009, 01:23:43 PM »

Hi 

As far as i know PzS  are rated 1200 cycles at 80 %  discharge   and i thoudgt OPzS are a bid more  might be wrong

Here is a comparison  of several battery types http://www.benchmarking.eu.org/Publications/Deliverables/Benchmarking_D1-4_Batteries_in_RES_applications.pdf

I used about 12 liter  in a Year (but need to top up soon)    Battery 24 volt 1550 AH  about 1200 kg

You can get special fittings for the cells to reduce water need

Billi


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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
stephend
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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2009, 03:13:44 PM »


Pure gold! Grin  Just got a quote back from the reseller here, and there's a 30% price difference between the same capacity PzS vs. OPzS.  That's money that can go towards a bigger PV array, which will mean less DoD and less cycling (and less generator time). 
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Justme
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« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2009, 04:00:58 PM »

If you dont mind me asking how much have you been quoted?
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Navitron solar thermal system
30 x 58mm panel 259L TS
1200watts solar 120vdc
FX80 Solar controller
Victron 12v 3000w 120a
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6 x 2v cells 1550amp/h 5C
24 x 2v cells 700amp/h 5C
Total bank 4350 amp/h 5C
stephend
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2009, 04:24:08 PM »

48V 770Ah @ C10:
3000 Euro's for the PzS from Germany: www.werbat.com
4700 for the OPzS from the same company.

3400 for PzS 48v 735Ah @ C5 from Spain (I think they're FIAMM bats).
Then there's the chap on ebay selling used and new forklift bats.  He wants 2100 GBP for 48V 900Ah (C100) new Platinum batteries.

The Werbat ones also have the option of an electrolyte circulation system, so you can mix up the electrolyte without having to do an equalisation charge.  Which they say improves the charging efficiency.

PS:
As a comparison a slightly smaller Rolls Surette series 5000 goes for about 5400 GBP.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 04:31:09 PM by stephend » Logged

Justme
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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2009, 06:12:33 PM »

Those C5 ones seem a good deal.

At C10 they would be much much larger than the others plus they will take heavy discharge & charge better.
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Navitron solar thermal system
30 x 58mm panel 259L TS
1200watts solar 120vdc
FX80 Solar controller
Victron 12v 3000w 120a
6kva genny
6 x 2v cells 1550amp/h 5C
24 x 2v cells 700amp/h 5C
Total bank 4350 amp/h 5C
billi
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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2009, 07:19:31 PM »

Somehow my heard  says no to buy new forklift batteries  instead of OPzS   ( as well i was told  there is a difference  in live time , charging and self discharge)

Perhaps these sales people automatically think .... "these off gridders must be loaded  Tongue"

I was quoted  about 3000 euro for new OPzS  (Hoppecke  and BAE )  for 24 volt 800 AH ( think is C10)  1.5 years ago

Still i would crawl through the local phone book , spread the word etc and try to source second hand  forklift ones  in your area  and get double the AH for the same price   , surly its a risk but fun as well and you can test them 

Amazing to see how their live exceeds when only cycled 20 %  ( but still sure a monster Battery has to be charged as well )

Billi
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
stephend
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« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2009, 07:51:41 PM »

Somehow my heard  says no to buy new forklift batteries  instead of OPzS   ( as well i was told  there is a difference  in live time , charging and self discharge)

Yes, I remember you saying this in a previous thread.  But even if the OPzS last longer than PzS, they'd have to last 30% longer for them to make economic sense - and I don't think they will. 

Perhaps these sales people automatically think .... "these off gridders must be loaded  Tongue"

Well to some extent the market does influence the prices of these things, because there are so many more forklift bats floating (teehee) around, there is more incentive to reduce the price.  Solar and off-grid is a bit specialised, so fewer manufacturers and fewer batteries for higher costs. IMO anyway.

Still i would crawl through the local phone book , spread the word etc and try to source second hand  forklift ones  in your area  and get double the AH for the same price   , surly its a risk but fun as well and you can test them 

Really difficult to test them though - I wouldn't be able to charge them, or to discharge them, just measure SG and voltage.  And I don't think this is reliable enough to determine whether they'll last 3 years, or 10 years, is it?
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billi
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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2009, 09:18:07 PM »

stephend

all true

In my opinion and thats why we all talk here , one has to decide where he puts his money  , and for my case  i donot regret any decision i did and decided myself , but i do regret a few decisions  ( as (have) being a greenhorn ) that i was adviced from others (salespersons) without thinking twice

So the forum is somehow  a medium to build up our minds and share ...  to be strong enough to understand  what certain people want to sell us


Have fun and Volt

ACDC  Billi
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
frotter
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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2009, 11:00:53 PM »


ACDC  Billi


Ha! I knew it! Bent as a ten Euro note.........


 bike
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  HE WHO CONTROLS THE LARD - CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE!!   Its me, incidentally..
stephend
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« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2009, 05:35:26 PM »

Esteemed gentlemen (and ladies),

I have a used forklift battery in my sights, it's never been used and is still strapped to the pallet that it arrived on.  It's been sat there for 3 years.  Now, first thing I thought of was sulfation due to no charge in 3 years, but if it just arrived on the pallet, perhaps it never had a charge in the first place(?).
The owner will get back to me on whether it has electrolyte in it already or not.  If it DOES have electrolyte, does that mean that it will inevitably be sulfated?
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Justme
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« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2009, 06:11:59 PM »

Nice find.

If its empty you need acid of the right strength for that cell type / maker (or is it standard?).

Try garages for a supply or a FLT center.

Empty would be the best way to store them I feel.

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Navitron solar thermal system
30 x 58mm panel 259L TS
1200watts solar 120vdc
FX80 Solar controller
Victron 12v 3000w 120a
6kva genny
6 x 2v cells 1550amp/h 5C
24 x 2v cells 700amp/h 5C
Total bank 4350 amp/h 5C
stephend
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« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2009, 06:19:49 PM »

I'm not so sure now.  The chap has responded saying that they are already filled with electrolyte... so they've been sitting there uncharged for 3 years  Sad
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