Biomass for DHW & Heating with solar - lots of questions!!

[ewart]

James...i think you may have made a prudent move.
I double checked with Kotly on their guarantee. It transpires that the manufacturer only supports Kotly on the guarantee for sales of Orlan Super into the Polish market.
I checked with the export manager at Eko-Vimar and he has confirmed this in writing to me.
If Kotly sell any boilers in the UK or Ireland the guarantee is worthless as far as Eko-Vimar is concerned.
If there were any problems with the boiler they are hardly going to come over and i feel that it may be difficult to get the formal UK distributor to want to help.
The Export Manager has confirmed that the guarantee is only applicable if you have bought through the appropriate contract distributor for the country in question.
Look forward to seeing the photos.
I will be ordering my boiler in March as you have done off the UK supplier.
They gave me some discount and i do not want the worry for the price difference.
   

[Fiddlers]

Good to see someone else treading the same path
The only thing I would say is the guys at Eco Angus do seem keen to help with the Orlan boilers, even if you didn't source it through them originally. I guess it's a case that the better supported the boiler the more business will come there way in the long run.

Boiler and tank should be here soon. Really looking forward to a warm house!

[Fiddlers]

Ahhhh, long time no post. I've a plumbing query I hope someone can help me with!

The situation is that I have an open vented radiator network (twin 15mm pipe) dating from the 80's (probably) that I don't really fancy touching at the moment and the fancy new 25kw boiler + 2000l accumulator being installed in the garage. My current problem is what to do with expansion. As I see it there are 3 main routes I could go:

1. Keep the open vented system and install a suitably sized F&E tank in the loft of the house. But - would the accumulator vent in to this properly bearing in mind the pipework connecting the 2 systems runs about 1m underground between house and garage (11m run in total)? this has the large advantage if it would work that I can legally do it myself and I understand what I'm doing (mostly!).

2. Convert to a sealed system with a fairly large expansion tank in the garage, near the accumulator. Note the accumulator is a standard Akvaterm and only rated at 1.5bar. not so keen on this, mostly because I'd have to pay for professional help 
I may also run into fixing leaky radiator plumbing though I guess in the scheme of things that's not so bad

3. A mix of the two, whereby I keep an open vented radiator network and a sealed boiler+accumulator and have a heat exchanger between the two systems. this sounds way too complex!

Opinions anyone?

[Countrypaul]

I'm not a plumber and have not installed a TS system yet - but am planning on doing so, so have read this thread with much interest. The only advantage I can see for the unvented systems seems to be that of space (no header tank needed and only a smallish expension vessel), but has the disadvantage of apparantly needing annual inspections (is this really the case?), and needs to be fitted by an accredited plumber.  There seems to be no performance advantage from what I have read.

Seems to me the pressurised system is idealy suited to smaller installations that have gas boilers and require the absolute minimum amount of space. Where space is not so much of an issue, it appears that the vented system eliminates some of the problems (but introduces others) and allows more, how shall I put this, adventurous solutions.

Paul

[Fiddlers]

Hia Paul, good to see my ramblings are useful to someone! (I have another thread running detailing the install under the 'Show us yours' area). What sort of system are you planning? log batch or pellet/chip? and capacity?
My understanding is the sealed systems should be more efficient, but you're right they have the downside of needing a professional to install. Whilst I'm happy with most of the work, sealed systems scare the **** out of me
(there's a video on the web somewhere of a sealed electrically heated tank that's got all the safety devices removed and the holes plugged. then buried in a field and heated. does a good rocket impression when it inevitably blows up!!)

I'm also not sure that a sealed system would be that much smaller, at least in my case. Had I had the foresight to pay a bit extra and get a 3 bar rated TS then perhaps it'd be a no brainer. But with a 1.5bar store I need a fair bit of expansion volume, whichever route I go down. I'm at the stage now of planning the copper runs, hence the question of where to put all the lovely hot water!

Cheers,
James

[martin]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/JmJoyuUJj2Q&amp;hl=en_GB&amp;fs=1&amp;" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/JmJoyuUJj2Q&amp;hl=en_GB&amp;fs=1&amp;</a>

[Countrypaul]

James,

my plans are simpler (I hope), just ASHP, Solar Thermal and a WBS. I know the WBS with back boiler (probably a Dunsley Yorkshire) forces that part to be a vented system. I'm still at the early stage, waiting for planning before we can finalise a number of aspects and carry out some calculations as to how much heat we will require (and whether we will want a backup boiler for example). Size of the thermal store is therfore a large unknown for us at present.

I certainly don't like the idea of a pressurised system, even though in practice the temperature should not get anywhere near 100C, just the video Martin has posted shows what might happend if it all went pear shaped.

[Solal]

I think you'll need a heat exchanger between the two systems.
Retain the existing  plumbing in the property  as vented  and provide an extra  f&e arrangement for  log batch boiler.

[dhaslam]

1. Keep the open vented system and install a suitably sized F&E tank in the loft of the house. But - would the accumulator vent in to this properly bearing in mind the pipework connecting the 2 systems runs about 1m underground between house and garage (11m run in total)? this has the large advantage if it would work that I can legally do it myself and I understand what I'm doing (mostly!).

Does  it have to go underground?   

[Fiddlers]

1. Keep the open vented system and install a suitably sized F&E tank in the loft of the house. But - would the accumulator vent in to this properly bearing in mind the pipework connecting the 2 systems runs about 1m underground between house and garage (11m run in total)? this has the large advantage if it would work that I can legally do it myself and I understand what I'm doing (mostly!).

Does  it have to go underground?   

Yep. The garage and house are separated by a driveway - hence the trenches and Uponor underground pipework. The only other way to do it I guess would be some sort of suspended pipework running above the height of the tank but that would look "odd"

For the moment I'm going for a 2 stage approach and getting the boiler and tank connected with a f&e tank in the garage to provide DHW over the summer. Later I'll worry about how to couple up the heating.

[Baz]

The implication is that the expansion pipe goes up then down again under the drive. This will fill with air whose expansion on warming and response to pressure spikes as valves are operated might cause some odd effects. There are auto vents for this. A nitpicking inspector would probably not like it as initial steam bubbles on a boil up would not have a free upward escape route.

[Fiddlers]

The implication is that the expansion pipe goes up then down again under the drive. This will fill with air whose expansion on warming and response to pressure spikes as valves are operated might cause some odd effects. There are auto vents for this. A nitpicking inspector would probably not like it as initial steam bubbles on a boil up would not have a free upward escape route.

Yep, the implication is exactly that.... good point about air. Looks to me like I'll go with 2 systems isolated by a HE. ho hum.